Against Celsus, Book VIII · §15 · Origen of Alexandria

The Son is not stronger than the Father

After this Celsus says: “To show that I do not judge these things wide of the mark, I will use their own words. For somewhere in the Heavenly Dialogue they say, in roughly these words: ‘If the Son is stronger than God, and the Son of Man is his lord (and who else will be lord over the God who rules?), how is it that many are around the well and no one goes into the well? Why, when you are travelling so long a road, do you lack courage? It escapes your notice; for I have courage and a sword.’ So their purpose is not to worship the God above the heavens. It is to worship the one they have supposed to be the father of this one around whom they have gathered, so that under the cover of a great God they may pay worship to this one alone whom they put forward, the Son of Man, whom they declare to be stronger than and lord over ‘the God who rules.’ Hence their command not to ‘serve two masters’ (Matthew 6:24), so that the faction around this one man alone may be kept intact.”

Here again he has taken these things from some sect, I do not know which, and a most obscure one, and on their account he accuses all Christians. I call it most obscure because not even we, who have often trained ourselves in debate against people from the sects, can make out the opinion from which Celsus has taken these things, if indeed he took them and did not make them up himself, or add some inference of his own.

For we, who say that the world of the senses too belongs to the One who created all things, say plainly that the Son is not stronger than the Father but less than he. And we say this in obedience to him, since he said: “The Father who sent me is greater than I” (John 14:28). None of us is so out of his wits as to say: “The Son of Man is lord of God.”

We do say that the Saviour rules, above all when we think of him as God the Word, and Wisdom, and Righteousness, and Truth: he rules all things that have been made subject to him, in so far as he is these, but not also the Father and God who rules him. Then, since the Word does not rule over the unwilling, and there are some still wicked, not only men but also angels and all the demons, we say that he does not yet rule these, since they do not yield to him willingly. But in another sense of “rule” he rules even them, as we say that man rules the irrational animals without having brought their ruling faculty under him: so, by taming them, he rules certain lions and broken-in beasts of burden. Yet he does all things so that he may persuade even those who do not now obey him, and so rule them as well.

So, as far as we are concerned, the saying that Celsus reports as though we proclaimed it is false: “Who else will be lord over the God who rules?”

Greek

Μετὰ ταῦτά φησιν ὁ Κέλσος· ὅτι δὲ οὐκ ἀπὸ σκοποῦ ταῦ (τα δο) ξάζω, αὐτῶν ἐκείνων φωναῖς χρήσομαι. ἐν γάρ που τῷ οὐρανίῳ διαλόγῳ τῇδέ που λέγουσι τοῖσδε τοῖς ῥήμασιν· „εἰ ἰσχυρότερός ἐστι θεοῦ υἱὸς, καὶ κύριος αὐτοῦ ἐστιν ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου (καὶ τίς ἄλλος κυριεύσει τοῦ κρατοῦντος θεοῦ;) πῶς πολλοὶ περὶ τὸ φρέαρ, καὶ οὐδεὶς εἰς τὸ φρέαρ; διὰ τί τοσαύτην ἀνύων ὁδὸν ἄτολμος εἶ; λανθάνει σε· πάρεστι γάρ μοι θάρσος καὶ μάχαιρα.“ οὕτως οὐ τοῦτ᾿ ἔστιν αὐτοῖς τὸ προκείμενον, τὸν ὑπερουράνιον θεὸν, ἀλλ᾿ ὃν ὑπέθεντο τούτου πατέρα, περὶ ὅν συνῆλθον, σέβειν, ἵν᾿ ἐπὶ προσχήματι μεγάλου θεοῦ τοῦτον, ὃν προΐστανται, τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, ὃν ἀποφαίνουσιν ἰσχυρότερον καὶ κύριον „τοῦ κρατοῦντος θεοῦ,“ θρησκεύωσι μόνον. ἔνθεν αὐτοῖς ἐκεῖνο τὸ παράγγελμα, τὸ μὴ „δουλεύειν“ δύο „κυρίοις,“ ἵν᾿ ἡ στάσις περὶ ἕνα τοῦτον φυλάσσηται. καὶ ἐν τούτοις δὴ πάλιν. οὐκ οἶδ᾿ ἀπὸ ποίας αἱρέσεως ἀσημοτάτης ταῦτα λαβὼν, πᾶσι Χριστιανοῖς ἀπ᾿ αὐτῶν ἐγκαλεῖ· λέγω δ᾿ ἀσημοτάτης, ὡς μηδ᾿ ἡμῖν εἶναι, τοῖς πολλάκις ἐγγυμνασαμένοις πρὸς τοὺς ἀπὸ τῶν αἱρέσεων, φανερὰν τὴν γνώμην, ἀφ᾿ ἧς ταῦτα ὁ Κέλσος εἴληφεν· εἴ γε εἴληφε καὶ μὴ ἀνέπλασεν ἢ ἀκολούθησιν προσέθηκε. σαφῶς γὰρ ἡμεῖς, οἱ λέγοντες τοῦ πάντα κτίσαντος καὶ τὸν αἰσθητὸν κόσμον εἶναι, φαμὲν τὸν υἱὸν οὐκ ἰσχυρότερον τοῦ πατρὸς ἀλλ᾿ ὑποδεέστερον. καὶ τοῦτο λέγομεν αὐτῷ πειθόμενοι, εἰπόντι τό· „ὁ πατὴρ ὁ πέμψας με μείζων μου ἐστί.“ καὶ οὐδεὶς ἡμῶν οὕτως ἐμβρόντητός ἐστιν, ὡς λέγειν· „κύριός“ ἐστι τοῦ θεοῦ „ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου.“ κρατεῖν δέ φαμεν τὸν σωτῆρα μάλιστα, ὅτε νοοῦμεν αὐτὸν θεὸν λόγον καὶ σοφίαν καὶ δικαιοσύνην καὶ ἀλήθειαν, πάντων μὲν τῶν ὑποτεταγμένων αὐτῷ, καθὸ ταῦτά ἐστιν, ἀλλ᾿ οὐχὶ καὶ τοῦ κρατοῦντος αὐτὸν πατρὸς καὶ θεοῦ. εἶτ᾿ ἐπεὶ οὐκ ἀκόντων λόγος κρατεῖ, εἰσὶ δέ τινες ἔτι φαῦλοι οὐ μόνον ἄνθρωποι ἀλλὰ καὶ ἄγγελοι καὶ πάντες δαίμονες, τούτων φαμὲν αὐτὸν μὴ κρατεῖν μέν πω, ἐπεὶ μὴ ἑκόντες εἴκουσιν αὐτῷ· κατ᾿ ἄλλο δὲ σημαινόμενον τοῦ κρατεῖν καὶ αὐτῶν κρατεῖ (ὡς τῶν ἀλόγων ζῴων φαμὲν τὸν ἄνθρωπον κρατεῖν, οὐχ ὑποτάξαντα αὐτῶν τὸ ἡγεμονικὸν, ὡς τιθασσεύσας κρατεῖ τινων λεόντων καὶ κτηνῶν δεδαμασμένων), πλὴν πάντα ποιεῖ, ἵνα καὶ τοὺς νυνὶ μὴ πειθομένους αὐτῷ πείσας κρατήσῃ καὶ αὐτῶν. καθ᾿ ἡμᾶς οὖν ψεῦδος τὸ ὑπὸ τοῦ Κέλσου λεγόμενον ὡς ὑφ᾿ ἡμῶν ἀπαγγελλόμενον τό· „τίς ἄλλος κυριεύσει τοῦ κρατοῦντος θεοῦ“;

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